Say NO to one liners on the ROUND ROBIN FORUM!

[LoriDavenport]

*Sniffs armpit*

Nope, do believe I had a nice hot bath this mornin'...

You shouldn't write late at night anyways, your body craves sleep from being fatigued and you definitely will NOT write a good five sentences like that (especially if you can't even write one..).

It's like Chet said, it doesn't take an author who writes a book one night to come up with one line. For instance take J.K. Rowling or Stephen King...it sures to hell didn't take them one night to create 700 or more paged books!

We're not expecting your writing to be that well, because heck ours isn't. We just want it to be descent. we're not asking much people, jeez.

[Brian Coltrane]

I gave a longer reply to this topic elsewhere, but I'll chime in on this thread too.

I think one-liners that make sense and move the story forward, are ok once in awhile.

But if it's just idle prattling going nowhere, then why bother? At that point it's more like graffiti, posting for the sake of leaving your mark.

[MaryAnne]

Here we go again...

Ok, folks, as this is a public forum it means any and all that you type or post is subject to criticism. My hope, of course, would be that it would be constructive criticism.

I can understand boths sides of this arguement. I can understand the frustration from some folks, from all sides.

I gotta admit y'all, I never envisioned the Round Robin thing would turn into such a beast. I've tried very hard to accomdate just about everybody. First we had the RR and RP debate. Then we had the Cannon Characters VS. Created Characters.

Now we're back to our one-liner arguement again.

I pose this question to our writers out there:

Are you writing the paticular RR or RP because you and your friends are just looking to play and you don't care if anyone reads the silly thing, or are you looking to entertain an audience too?

This is important. If you're simply doing and RR or RP for your own enjoyment then, if you like, I think I can go in and make it so that no one else in the world sees your RR or RP when they come to HazzardNet, only you and those who participate with it. (I have to test this so don't hold me to that just yet, but I know there's some options with the forum program).

If you are considering your audience and hoping that perhaps you might be entertaining them with your story, then please do consider what is being said here.

I know Cowboy is about as gentle as porcupine sometimes, but the gist of what I'm getting here is that he, and others, do want to read the stories and they all are pretty sure that folks out there have some very creative ideas and such. They also believe, as do I, that if you're serious about presenting your RR or RP in a good format (not a perfect format, just good enough for folks to follow a storyline) there are folks here who would be happy to help ya, I think.

I posted previously about this, in this thread, with an example of what could be written instead of just a single line of dialouge. Show a little action too. It doesn't have to be graceful prose, nobody's asking for best selling novel material here.

If you enjoy writing and creating stories and want to improve your mechanics, then please listen to what's being said here.

Also remember this. As a writer, you open youself up to criticism every time you write something. Please, please, please, don't take any criticism of anything you write as a personal slam. I know it's hard because what you write may be personal to you. It's hard for me sometimes, I've experienced it a few times lately. But you have to be able to step back and say "ok, what's really being said to me here that's something I need to consider and is something I need to improve on."

If somebody's just dumping on you because, like the example Daney gave, they don't like first person stories, that's not a constructive criticism. That's simply personal preference. Not once, in any of this discussion have I heard anyone say that they didn't like stories themselves, the plotlines and whathave you, that were bein' written. It's the structure they're having a hard time with.

So, that brings me back to my fundamental question to the writers. Are you writing your RR or RP only for yourselves or do you wish to entertain an audience too? As this is a public forum, and thus you're wide open for anybody to stumble in and read the thing, (and subsequently offer critique) this is a very important question.

[Brian Coltrane]

Well said MaryAnne. I'm curious though, what's your take on the whole issue of RR quality? Much as we like giving people a place to learn and grow - this ain't a preschool. At what point do we draw the line and say, "shape up, or move on?"

[RogerDuke]

Hey Brian, you need to type up 4 more one liners to get ahead of MaryAnne in this post race

[MaryAnne]

You raise a very good question. We've always been pretty open and loose here. We do have RR rules, not strictly enforced tho'. I dunno, maybe we need to start strictly enforcing the rules now, many of which cover a lot of the issues we had in the past (that's why we came up with them. LOL).

Or do we start monitoring the RR's and do this "Brick in the Wall" style (Pink Floyd song, with the spoken part toward the end.... "Wrong!! Do it again!! Wrong!! Do it again!!") and delete posts and say to folks "please rewrite, you can do better than that!"

I dunno what the answer is.

I think it all comes back to what these writers are looking for. Are they loooking for just a place to play amongst themselves and don't care about their audience, or do they wish to craft something enjoyable, for themselves and for those who read it? And craft it in format folks can read and follow.

[Brian Coltrane]

I think it all comes back to what these writers are looking for. Are they loooking for just a place to play amongst themselves and don't care about their audience, or do they wish to craft something enjoyable, for themselves and for those who read it? And craft it in format folks can read and follow.

I think the question really is...what are we looking for, on HazzardNet? What was our original intent with the RR's, and are they what we'd hoped for, today?

[Brian Coltrane]

Hey Brian, you need to type up 4 more one liners to get ahead of MaryAnne in this post race

BAHAHAHA! Thanks for pointing that out, Roger.

[Cowboy]

First, I want to say thank you to MaryAnne and Brian. I know I have been a real pain in the ass and so much more all these years, but thank you for.... I guess just really listening and understanding where Im coming from this time. I know I can be hot under the collar, as MA said not quite the friendliest hombre around here.

This has really driven me mad, I have come so far, it will be 10 years in the spring that I have been here and I feel like I have wasted so much of it. Now that Im mellowing in my old age and realize how warm and lovin this place is... it seems like its falling to ruins, just when Im ready to give it my all.

*Clears throat.*

MaryAnne, you make such a very good point about these green horns, what are there intent for these stories? It seems you have really dug to the roots, even deeper then I have. Ive over looked there intent, I admit. I'd really like to hear this, perhaps it will open my mind to there side of it better.

Thanks again guys, means alot to me.

BL, Lori... thank you very much ya'll have backed me firmly even when you had to follow me into hell never knowing what the consiquences might be because of me. Thank you.

}~* Chet

[Brian Coltrane]

I think the question really is...what are we looking for, on HazzardNet? What was our original intent with the RR's, and are they what we'd hoped for, today?

I'm gonna quote myself and answer my own question, to see what reaction , if any, it gets.

I think we've went off-course with the RR's. I'll take responsibility for some of that , as I used to patrol those pretty heavily, and I'd delete the crap.

Yep. Bad post? *ZAP*. No post. No problem.

Other times, to make a point, I'd take a post that made no sense, and make it even worse, editing it to amuse myself. This isn't professional conduct, but it was funnier n' hell.

If a story thread was so awful that it was a waste of server space, I used to get out the Magic Black Eraser and *POOF!* Gone.

I paid more attention to what was going on in the RR's , when I participated. But then when there was that big to-do with some people not wanting non-original Dukes characters in an RR...I took it as a hint. I left the RR's to go in whatever direction the participants wanted, left all of it to MaryAnne to sort out, and I spent my writing time elsewhere.

Looking back....maybe we're too democratic and too kind here, and we've let quality slide to the point that some people don't even make a real effort to post something worthwhile.

I'm tempted, with a couple of exceptions, to blow up everything on the RR's and start over. Clean slate. Begin anew. Before anybody panics you could all vote on the top 3 or 5 stories you think are worth keeping going.

This might be a radical notion, but it's the only way a moderator could jump back into the fray and keep up with what's going on.

Opinions?

[DaneyDuke]

I think the question really is...what are we looking for, on HazzardNet? What was our original intent with the RR's, and are they what we'd hoped for, today?

The first RR I was in, People were introducing a new series.

Allowed friends and strangers a chance to have fun!

Does that mean all rrs should be like that? Certainly not. Some authors may not have a place to post their stories and use the rr forum to do that.

Have always thought of rrs as a way for folks to interact in the community. Like those who use the episode discussion, news and trivia sections.

[MaryAnne]

I'm gonna quote myself and answer my own question, to see what reaction , if any, it gets.

I think we've went off-course with the RR's. I'll take responsibility for some of that , as I used to patrol those pretty heavily, and I'd delete the crap.

Yep. Bad post? *ZAP*. No post. No problem.

Other times, to make a point, I'd take a post that made no sense, and make it even worse, editing it to amuse myself. This isn't professional conduct, but it was funnier n' hell.

If a story thread was so awful that it was a waste of server space, I used to get out the Magic Black Eraser and *POOF!* Gone.

I paid more attention to what was going on in the RR's , when I participated. But then when there was that big to-do with some people not wanting non-original Dukes characters in an RR...I took it as a hint. I left the RR's to go in whatever direction the participants wanted, left all of it to MaryAnne to sort out, and I spent my writing time elsewhere.

Looking back....maybe we're too democratic and too kind here, and we've let quality slide to the point that some people don't even make a real effort to post something worthwhile.

I'm tempted, with a couple of exceptions, to blow up everything on the RR's and start over. Clean slate. Begin anew. Before anybody panics you could all vote on the top 3 or 5 stories you think are worth keeping going.

This might be a radical notion, but it's the only way a moderator could jump back into the fray and keep up with what's going on.

Opinions?

That's part of what became the problem. This moderator couldn't keep up with all the RR's that were going on at one point. Particpating in one nearly drove me to the brink, when I would write a post and then when I got back the forums 24 to 48 hours later, there'd be three pages of new posts and the story was all over the freakin' map. I had better things to do with my time and gave up, going elsewhere. And then the flap over the created characters vs. cannon characters...yeah, I figured I was basically being pointed to the door.

So the place got out of control. I Did try to reign in a couple of people but was essentially ignored (either on purpose or because of inability to understand what was being asked). They have since been removed from the forums.

The thought of wiping out some of the stories in the RR section may not be a bad idea. Several very old RR's that never went anywhere or were absolutely awful were purged back in September after the first go around with this issue. (Some were also accidentally deleted, which I still apologize for).

Brian's idea may not be a bad idea. Have folks nominate their top three favorite RRs and then compile a list and put it to a vote to narrow down the say, the top five. The RR's that don't make the cut can either be completely removed from the site or archived to a sub-board as Mufn has suggested.

[MaryAnne]

The first RR I was in, People were introducing a new series.

Allowed friends and strangers a chance to have fun!

Does that mean all rrs should be like that? Certainly not. Some authors may not have a place to post their stories and use the rr forum to do that.

Have always thought of rrs as a way for folks to interact in the community. Like those who use the episode discussion, news and trivia sections.

Yes, but Daney, waay back when the that first RR was done, everybody had the gist of how it worked. The posts were more fleshed out and described some action and emotion along with any dialouge and weren't just me and Brian doing this....

Brian: Back off, MaryAnne. I'm taking over this town.

MaryAnne: No, you're not.

Brian: Yes, I am.

MaryAnne: No, you're not.

Brian: Yes, I am!

MaryAnne: No, you're not dammit because I said so!!

Rosco: Jit!

I can't say I recall a single post in that RR being one line only. Can you imagine if the above was all posted one line at a time?? Nobody would've read any of our crap back then, or particpated in that RR. We WANTED folks to jump in and play. We didn't have any high expectations about writing quality but we didn't have any off the wall, out of space posts or one line responses.

Maybe my own expectations for an RR are too high now. Afterall, most everybody who participated back then don't take part in an RR now.

[DaneyDuke]

I started doing what Mufn suggested in the other thread and rate stories...

Perhaps a clean slate would help staff, writers and readers. Mufn, MaryAnne and Brian want everyone to vote, that is fine too.

[Brian Coltrane]

That's part of what became the problem. This moderator couldn't keep up with all the RR's that were going on at one point. Particpating in one nearly drove me to the brink, when I would write a post and then when I got back the forums 24 to 48 hours later, there'd be three pages of new posts and the story was all over the freakin' map. I had better things to do with my time and gave up, going elsewhere. And then the flap over the created characters vs. cannon characters...yeah, I figured I was basically being pointed to the door.

So the place got out of control. I Did try to reign in a couple of people but was essentially ignored (either on purpose or because of inability to understand what was being asked). They have since been removed from the forums.

The thought of wiping out some of the stories in the RR section may not be a bad idea. Several very old RR's that never went anywhere or were absolutely awful were purged back in September after the first go around with this issue. (Some were also accidentally deleted, which I still apologize for).

Brian's idea may not be a bad idea. Have folks nominate their top three favorite RRs and then compile a list and put it to a vote to narrow down the say, the top five. The RR's that don't make the cut can either be completely removed from the site or archived to a sub-board as Mufn has suggested.

Sounds like we're on the same page, couisn. I've already started deleting a few very old, and dormant threads, that were crafted by one of the nuisance parties. But I won't touch anybody else's stuff until Mufn and other folks around here can weigh in.

I think if we leave a few active stories going , that are good, and we archive some for library material , and delete the dead stuff.... we can breathe some new life into the RR's. And you and I can keep up with them.

Not that we're going to butt in all the time, and participate in EVERYTHING, and take it all over.... no. Not at all. But we won't abandon the place again.

Maybe we've over-categorized the RR section, too. We've tried so hard to keep everybody happy, that darn near nobody's happy. Including me and MaryAnne.

For now, nobody panic. We'll always have RR's and we do want all levels of writers to feel welcome. But we also want READERS to feel welcome and have, as it's been said, something worth reading. I don't wanna see the RR's reduced to scratchpaper and scribbles.

[LizzyJackson-Davenport]

That's part of what became the problem. This moderator couldn't keep up with all the RR's that were going on at one point. Particpating in one nearly drove me to the brink, when I would write a post and then when I got back the forums 24 to 48 hours later, there'd be three pages of new posts and the story was all over the freakin' map. I had better things to do with my time and gave up, going elsewhere. And then the flap over the created characters vs. cannon characters...yeah, I figured I was basically being pointed to the door.

So the place got out of control. I Did try to reign in a couple of people but was essentially ignored (either on purpose or because of inability to understand what was being asked). They have since been removed from the forums.

The thought of wiping out some of the stories in the RR section may not be a bad idea. Several very old RR's that never went anywhere or were absolutely awful were purged back in September after the first go around with this issue. (Some were also accidentally deleted, which I still apologize for).

Brian's idea may not be a bad idea. Have folks nominate their top three favorite RRs and then compile a list and put it to a vote to narrow down the say, the top five. The RR's that don't make the cut can either be completely removed from the site or archived to a sub-board as Mufn has suggested.

archive them to a sub-board but don't completely erase them. Sounds to me like a popularity contest. Sure maybe only the best will survive but erasing someone's dedication to a story sure sounds harsh to me.

[B.L. Davenport]

This may sound harsh to some of you and I'm sorry if it does that is not my intention at all but Lizzy if someone is truly dedicated they will want to entertain the reader as well as themselves with the story.

archive them to a sub-board but don't completely erase them. Sounds to me like a popularity contest. Sure maybe only the best will survive but erasing someone's dedication to a story sure sounds harsh to me.

[DixieDavenport]

I'd like to see one line dtuff at least moved to a sub link, even I can see not deleting their 'work' but what is posted from here on out (as we said in round 1 of this) should be stopped by the powers that be since they don't want Chet (or us) to stop them.

167 pages with what 10 posts to a page with only parts of sentences is not what I call dedication to work. I will be nice and not say what I think it is a dedication to. As we've suggested go on YM, or another program and post back and forth then make on page of a few paragraphs. You know those things that sentences make up!

Yeah, I've voted a few times but when I want to jump on and read something new I don't want to have to start several stories, review them and still find nothing of any quality to read.

DixieDavenport

[enosgal]

I'm not sure where this post will end up in the order here, but I wholeheartedly agree with the "NO" vote for one-liners in rrs. I liked the idea of placing the stories where the authors were just talking to each other and NOT the readers on some line where they aren't visible to the rest of us readers. I am a die-hard fan of this show and the fanficiton written for it, ever since it first came on TV. I am decades from being a teenager, but still enjoy the exploits of these characters. I cannot write, as I have stated before, but I LOVE to read. Thank you, moderators, for doing all you can to ensure that all of us readers have something to read.

[Cowboy]

Yeehaw! Now were getting some where. I think starting from scratch would be a really great idea. I think not only would it give EVERYONE a fresh start but it might also seem somewhat inviting to the people who USED to really enjoy writing there. Frankly I think those who used to write there left because they were so over whelmed by these one-liner no account stories.

Even Brian and MaryAnne, two of so many awesome writers that used to really have a blast on the RR board just said themselves that they were basically shoved out the door.

Lets give it a fresh start, give the moderators a chance to help these green horns out and if it is a case of laziness and lack of effort... then they deserve the boot.

I will be voting on the stories I wish to keep in the deck shortly.

~Chet

[DixieDavenport]

This is the beginning of a new year, why not put the old stuff further down and let them continue, but anything new would go on a 2010 folder with all new stuff???

DixieDavenport

[Garrett Duke]

Ok...I have been reading and following this thread from the beginning, but haven't made a post due to having mixed emotions about it and not wanting to step on anyone's toes. I can see both sides of it to some degree. Back when I started out several years ago, I use to RR and RP and had fun doing it. But that has been awhile now...due to not finding a story I am interested in writing in and due to my lack of time. One line stories are frustrating and discouraging especially to see so many out there, especially looking back to how the RRs and the RPs use to be back when I perticipated in them.

But at the same time, are their stories really hurting anyone? Perhaps they could have a different section dedicated to those types of stories that way if you like that sort of story you can go there. If not, go elsewhere. As I said, I don't like the one line story posts as the others here have stated, but no one is making you read them. Everyone has different styles in writing and different levels in talent in writing and perhaps some don't have the time to write very detailed posts. Maybe some of them work hard to get that one line in and to them, they think it makes sense or like it for some reason or another. I don't know, but it isn't up to me to judge their writing or their talent (I know I don't have the best talent or the best stories out there!)

As I said, I have very mixed up feelings about this because I do agree with Chet and everyone that feels the same way and have for awhile now. It does get old seeing the same kind of stories around or what not, but I chose to ignore them. But I am also concerned about the authors of the one liner posted stories. and of chasing them off or making them feel unwanted.

I guess there is no win-win situation here and the solution is hard to come by to solve the problem. Maybe starting anew would be best...a fresh start at a new year, but also have a section for the one liners stories to go? I don't know.

Well there is my two cents on the topic...

[LoriDavenport]

I agree with those who want to start anew. Moving them to a sub-board of the forums definitely doesn't seem like a bad idea, at least those members whos stories were moved weren't completely deleted and lost forever, right?

Voting for the top five stories to keep on the RR section is a great idea too. You can count me in.

[Brian Coltrane]

Very good points are being made by ya'll. There's some well-thought out feedback and ideas here. MaryAnne and I will put our heads together today - *bonk* OW! - and sort out the likely plan, and get Mufn's input. Meanwhile, I'm gonna start a thread for voting on your favorite stories.

One of the things we'd like to do going forward, is make sure our writers get recognition and constructive feedback. Voting for favorites, and maybe having an occassional award, is something we should do on an ongoing basis. Similiar to the "Fan of the Month" thang, maybe we should have a fanfic award, quarterly. Who knows, if we see a story that's really good, we might include it in our monthly ( or every so often-ly) newsletter. Or at least link to it.

I hear two things over and over that are very positive in these discussions. Namely:

"I wanna write!"

"I wanna read!"

I think we can find a win-win.

[Meadowmufn]

I think in true Boss Hogg style, we should have a cradle to grave plan for fanfics. Therefore, I think we should have a Hogg's Heavenly Acres sub-forum to properly bury neglected and low quality RRs.

Some of these stories have been going on for years and although they might be a lot of low quality fics, someone cared enough about them to continue them for so long. I don't want to delete all their work. I do, however, want to only showcase the higher quality fics in the main RR forums, so the best way to do that is move the low quality fics to their own sub-forum.