The Dukes are racist??

[CDoherty95]

Hey y'all

This is something that has been bugging me for a while,and to be honest it's making me laugh at their ignorance and stupidity.

For the record I just want to say that I am in no way a racist person, and despite people getting hot under the collar about the General Lee and the Dukes being a symbol of racism because it was set in the south and had a confederate flag on the General Lee. Gy Waldron himself said that he was worried about the all white population during the first season, so he wrote some of the bad guy and police roles for black people.

The Dukes,at least in my opinion, is a show about family and right and wrong,where the good guys always win,nobody dies an the bad guys always lose. There was no hint of racism in the show (at least I couldn't find any) ,so why is the confederate flag now considered a symbol of racism?? As an Irish person I could play the same card that NAACP are playing with the English flag because of the plantations. But why don't I? Because I'm not a political correctness freak who believes everybody should be wrapped up in bubblewrap,safe from any possible harm or bad thing.

What's your opinion on the confederate flag? Is NAACP being stupid, or do they have a point?

And just incase anyone from NAACP happens to be reading this, and was responsible for the General Lee becoming a symbol of racism...

YEEE-HAAWW!!!

[MaryAnne]

Ya know, we were talkin' about this not too long ago, Mufn, Brian and I, after the big stink NASCAR had about not allowing the General Lee to do a lap at Daytona. The flag, of course, bein' the sole reason they put the kebosh on it.

(Begin Soapbox Speech. Opinion expressed is mine and mine alone.)

This is not the first time the NAACP has carried on about the flag on the General Lee. Back in 1997 as CBS was gearing up to air the first reunion movie, the NAACP threatened a boycott of the network if CBS didn't remove the flag from the car. CBS polietly declined and the flag remained. I don't recall the NAACP carrying through with much of a boycott. Frankly, it would have been a wasted effort on their part.

The Confederate flag has been a source of controversy pretty much since 1861. LOL. Slavery is a very dark mark on American history and the Confederate South fought, more or less, to keep it. (I'm of the thought that the war, in a larger sense, was an issue involving state's rights as a whole, not JUST slavery. Slavery, however, was the "face" of the controversy and was an extremely hot topic, both morally, ethically and even economically.)

After the war and the defeat of the South, slavery was formally ended, but equality for blacks was not immediate. Groups like the Ku Klux Klan emerged from the ashes of the Confederacy and, with both Confederate and Union flags flying, proclaimed that blacks had no place within Christian white America and proceeded to spread their message through violence and intimidation.

Thus, given the history and the use of the flag by groups like the KKK, the Confederate flag has taken on a sometimes darker, more sinister, meaning then when first unfurled some 150 years ago. However, the American flag, Old Glory, which has had the same if not more terrible atrocities committed under it, remains pure, somehow. (Do a quick image search on Google for the KKK, and lookit all them pretty Old Glory flags they fly...)

Then ya got tv shows like the Dukes of Hazzard, which take such a symbol like the rebel flag and turn it on it's ear. LOL. The racsist accusation comes from two things that critics like to point out: 1) There was no black actor in a lead role, everyone was white and 2) Most of the bad guys (thus the criminal element) were black which is considered to be sterotyping. Although I can not refute either statement, what most of these critics failed to notice because obviously they didn't watch the show like we did, is that a lot of the cops (ie FBI men, other law enforcement) were black and there were black characters that came and went through Hazzard who were treated equally with everyone else. Boss Hogg had to answer to a bank examiner once, who was black. You had Sheriff Little, who answered to NOBODY. LOL. You had Brodie for a brief time early in the show. In the first Cale Yarborough episode, his chief mechanic (although fictitious) was a black man.

Take THAT NASCAR.

Then there was Cooter's friend, Jonas. Cooter went to jail for him.

Yeah, tell me all about how racist this show is again?

Anyway, to answer your question, CD, I don't think the NAACP is being stupid necessarily, but I don't believe that the flag should be buried and removed from sight. Shows like the Dukes offered the symbol in a more positive light and I think the NAACP should just leave it alone. There are more productive ways and means on working to achieve equality of the races. Picking on a tv show that aired some 30 friggin' years ago that is not and never was racist, is not the way to achieve it.

(End Soapbox Speech. Reminder that the opinion expressed is mine and mine alone. Thank ya.)

[HossC]

I was going to reply to this thread earlier, but being an outsider thought it best to let someone more informed than me have first crack.

Dukes is from a different place in time to where we are now. Not everything that was OK in the late '70s and early '80s is OK now. There are several bits of dialog and narration that would now be considered sexist. Good ol' Hobie, the happy drunk driver, would probably be frowned upon as well. What I don't remember is any racism. As MaryAnne said, although the main cast was white, any black characters were treated the same as their white counterparts: the good black guys had equal status to the white good guys and the black bad guys had equal status to the white bad guys. As well as the black characters they also had Billy Joe Fong in 'Miz Tisdale on the Lam' and, at the height of the Cold War, a nice Russian in 'Comrade Duke'.

Anyone who's read 'Redneck Boy in the Promised Land' will know that Ben Jones went on civil rights marches in the '60s because he believed in an integrated America, and especially an integrated South. This is a man who quit the show for several episodes in an argument over whether Cooter should have a beard; does anyone think he'd have stuck around long on a racist show?.

The problem with flags is they get misappropriated. As MaryAnne pointed out, the KKK used the Stars and Stripes and the Confederate flag whilst spreading their message of hatred. You can even find lots of Christian symbols associated with them, yet no one is trying to ban the Stars and Stripes or Christians due to this association. The UK had a similar problem. Around the time of Dukes there was a far right racist group called the National Front (NF). A splinter group of the NF, the British National Party (BNP), is now the most popular of these organizations. Both have used the Union Jack and St. George's Cross (English flag) in their propaganda. I worked in London during one of the European soccer tournaments and wanted to put an English flag in the window while the competition was on. My (American) boss objected on the grounds that she considered it racist. After a heated argument she conceded that it was the flag of the country, showing support for our soccer team, and not a flag of the far right. If you don't fight these small battles, the racist will win.

On a lighter note, as an Englishman in Ireland I have taken some light-hearted comments about my nationality, and been blamed for burning down the churches. I swear, it wasn't me. There are genuinely a couple of pubs that I've been advised not to go in with my accent, but most people are open-minded enough to realize that the past is not the fault of the people alive today.

Now MaryAnne, you can have your soapbox back.

[Brian Coltrane]

I'll take the soapbox for a minute since MaryAnne's not looking. I already vented my spleen in the last Newsletter with an editorial about the whole NASCAR snub of the General Lee. But I wanna respond to C.D. here about the NAACP a little more.

First, a lot of things the NAACP does, are positive. But they have a mission against he rebel flag. It was the NAACP that put enough pressure against the State of Georgia, some umpteen years ago, that Georgia altered their state flag to appease them.

That powerful victory set a precedent that continues today.The NAACP will never cease it's attack on the rebel flag. In fact I remember some scuttlebutt years ago about a John and Tom concert that was cancelled because the NAACP called up the city and said they'd boycott the town or something if there was a General Lee on that theater stage. My memory on this is sketchy, but I wrote the homepage article about it for HNet years ago, so you'd think I'd remember. I can't recall if the NAACP thing was disproven or if they refused to comment or what.

Anyway. I have a rebel flag as an avatar here on HazzardNet. Someday, I may be personally be challenged by some zealot who's on a seek-and-destroy mission against the rebel flag. HazzardNet itself, as a whole, may someday find itself on the defensive about the display of the rebel flag in our logos and banners.

But I understand why it upsets some people, so if any such confrontation arises, we'll handle it diplomatically.

And if The Dukes of Hazzard comes under attack as a whole, we will not remain silent. How could we? Because we'd be next at HazzardNet; as would the Confederate General Lee fan club or any other group or website that inferred anything politically incorrect, such as the display of yon rebel flag, or the preservation of orange clunker cars adorned with said flag, or the promotion of a tv show that refuses, after all these years, to fade away into memory, and take the rebel flag with it.

Yeehaa, my friends.

[countrygirl1986]

*steals soap box out from under Brian* Actually, the KKK didn't adopt the confederate flag as it's symbol until after the 1930's. During the 1930's they typically used old glory in the form of it's Betsy Ross flag incarnation (Same as now, but instead of fifty stars in the canton, it was 13 arranged in a circle for those who don't know which flag I'm talking about).

To be truthful, there were several incarnations of the confederate flag, but the one which seems to draw the controversy is the confederate naval jack. The stars and bars is usually overlooked and had a completely different look from what flew on the General's roof... but if you put it in an array with other flags and asked a student to pick it out... they probably wouldn't be able to, unless they were a flag historian.

I have several african american friends who know I have a love for the confederate flag in all its incarnations, and they are fine with it, BECAUSE they know I love history and they know I'm not racist.

There was a recent article on MSNBC which I think just wasn't right: A girl got thrown out of her high school prom because she wore a dress which resembled the confederate naval jack. I mean, has this school ever heard of the first amendment? Has the NAACP ever heard of freedom of expression or freedom of speech?

Personally, I believe if you use the flag out of context, you should be lynched. That goes for the KKK as well as NAACP. Stop f***ing with historical symbols!

Shoot, the NAACP even had the confederate flag removed from a confederate historical monument (confederate old soldiers home in Virginia). The freakin' Union was okay with the flag, they even paid for the home to be built after the war. African Americans even donated to the cause of building it. The flag flying didn't bother any of them! AND it's illegal to require the removal of the confederate flags from a confederate monument, illegal to fly a union flag on a confederate monument, and illegal to fly a confederate flag on a union monument.

I'm not racist, but white or black, you break the law and mess with historical monuments and symbols, you need your behind beat.

Also, the confederacy was in fact training free african americans to fight for the cause of the independence of the southern states. They weren't drafted. They were willing to take up the arms for the south, because the war wasn't truly about slavery! That was Northern Propaganda. The north stated the southern states left because they viewed Lincoln as an abolitionist... guess what, Lincoln had no plans on freeing the slaves.

And for that matter, slaves weren't necessarily black. They were white, red, yellow, etc as well.

And the NAACP want to talk about whites being racist? What about all the white men being beaten nearly to death over the Trayvon Martin case in Florida right now? Tell me that's not racist. Racism has many faces. It's more than just caucasians who practice it. Wake up NAACP, your own people are inciting this behavior!

AND one more thing. The NAACP need to take and watch a TV show before they judge it. Not just a few clips or a few episodes, but the show in its entirety, before they make judgement. Taking things out of context seems to make them happy... well guess what, racism is taking things out of context too. Racism is about flash judgement, which is something the NAACP is supporting in their own way!

Don't take your anger out on historical symbols. Take your anger out on people who use them out of context.

[HossC]

Just to lighten the tone slightly; thanks for the lesson in vexillology - it would make a great episode of

. I think you guys should go back to the Grand Union Flag (aka. Continental Colors, the Congress Flag etc.) - there's something about the canton in that one that I like .

[countrygirl1986]

Yeah, I did a somewhat in depth study of them a few years ago, at least, for the Revolutionary War period. I have a good friend who is a historian who allowed me to borrow some books. At the time I was teaching our colonial color guard and I wanted to know my flag history for that.

As for the Grand Union flag: I wonder why! ROFL. There's just something about that English Naval Jack being featured on it that might have something to do with that?

Coincidentally, that flag gave Washington and his troops a one up against the British a couple of times, because it resembled the East Indies Company's flag, just a different number of stripes. Also, the English flag of the time featured the canton like the entire flag is now, only they had a red field. When the Americans raised the Grand Union, the British thought the Patriots were surrendering (I wonder why LOL JK). But that is part of the reason the flag was changed. Also, the Grand Union was originally used in hopes of an eventual reconciliation with England, but as the British started attempting to use a heavier and heavier hand, hopes of reconciliation gave way to the hopes of building a new nation, so the flag was changed to reflect these views. The English Canton was removed and a blue canton with thirteen stars in its foreground became the new flag - and they weren't necessarily in a circle. There was also an arrangement used in which the stars were in a similar pattern to where they are now. The flags generally varied by regiment and company.

[Meadowmufn]

Personally, I believe if you use the flag out of context, you should be lynched. That goes for the KKK as well as NAACP. Stop f***ing with historical symbols!

Sorry, I don't agree with this at all and it's rather inflammatory. I suggest you tone it down. I don't believe anybody should be lynched for free speech, even if I don't agree with it.

[countrygirl1986]

Oops, sorry Mufn. I actually meant Lynched with words but my cat distracted me while I was typing. A verbal hanging if you would.

[Meadowmufn]

Oops, sorry Mufn. I actually meant Lynched with words but my cat distracted me while I was typing. A verbal hanging if you would.

I don't like that word being used no matter how you meant it. The connotation will always be negative and doesn't help your argument in the least. In fact, it hurts it... a lot. Here you are presenting an argument about Dukes not being racist and then you advocate lynching, albeit it "verbal". Not good.

[countrygirl1986]

Sowwy. *blushes*

I see your point. Shoulda used verbal chew out instead. I just get so upset whenever stuff like that comes up. That and I wasn't raised with that being a racist word, it applying toward any ethnicity. I do apologize as I keep forgetting that it is racially charged in some arenas. I didn't realize i had forgotten that until I seen your second post. I'll go back and change it to be more acceptable.

Er... would like to anyway.

Mufn, could you do me a favor and change it for me? I am so sorry.

[Meadowmufn]

Sowwy. *blushes*

I see your point. Shoulda used verbal chew out instead. I just get so upset whenever stuff like that comes up. That and I wasn't raised with that being a racist word, it applying toward any ethnicity. I do apologize as I keep forgetting that it is racially charged in some arenas. I didn't realize i had forgotten that until I seen your second post. I'll go back and change it to be more acceptable.

"Lynching" has a negative connotation even beyond anything that applies to race. It is taking the law into one's own hands to execute someone who may or may not be guilty of wrongdoing. That's also something I strongly disagree with.

[countrygirl1986]

Very true, but I always seen that in connection to the word mob, and I think I did catch it once or twice where it was done by the law... hmm...

Either way, I apologize and retract the statement and would like to substitute it with:

Anyone who abuses a historical symbol needs a verbal tear down with facts so bad that they go home and cry into their pillows.

[Susan]

*Disclaimer: As Mary Anne said earlier, this is just MY opinion.*

I'm not American, but we do sometimes face a similar situation over here, with the Australian Aboriginal People.

It's been my experience, that 90% of them would prefer to be treated equally, and let the past be the past. Unfortunately, there is a minority of oversensitive people (Of white as well as black) who see offense in almost everything - and, also unfortunately - they're the ones that get all the publicity.

IMO, the Dukes is the least racist thing I have ever seen in my life. A fabulous FAMILY show, that I would be proud to let any child of mine watch, knowing that they will not see the violence, sex, and swearing that populate most modern TV shows. <Ummm... Does this soapbox belong to someone here? Sorry!>

Just to put a slightly different slant on this - IMHO, I think that if Jessie had ever caught the boys - or Daisy, for that matter - using racist trash-talk, or discriminating against someone, like that, he would certainly have had something to say about it!! (And when they were younger, quite likely a strap for their behinds, as well!)

Just my opinion, for what it's worth!

Cheers, All!

[Hobie Hartkins]

I'll take the soapbox for a minute since MaryAnne's not looking. I already vented my spleen in the last Newsletter with an editorial about the whole NASCAR snub of the General Lee. But I wanna respond to C.D. here about the NAACP a little more.

First, a lot of things the NAACP does, are positive. But they have a mission against he rebel flag. It was the NAACP that put enough pressure against the State of Georgia, some umpteen years ago, that Georgia altered their state flag to appease them.

That powerful victory set a precedent that continues today.The NAACP will never cease it's attack on the rebel flag. In fact I remember some scuttlebutt years ago about a John and Tom concert that was cancelled because the NAACP called up the city and said they'd boycott the town or something if there was a General Lee on that theater stage. My memory on this is sketchy, but I wrote the homepage article about it for HNet years ago, so you'd think I'd remember. I can't recall if the NAACP thing was disproven or if they refused to comment or what.

Anyway. I have a rebel flag as an avatar here on HazzardNet. Someday, I may be personally be challenged by some zealot who's on a seek-and-destroy mission against the rebel flag. HazzardNet itself, as a whole, may someday find itself on the defensive about the display of the rebel flag in our logos and banners.

But I understand why it upsets some people, so if any such confrontation arises, we'll handle it diplomatically.

And if The Dukes of Hazzard comes under attack as a whole, we will not remain silent. How could we? Because we'd be next at HazzardNet; as would the Confederate General Lee fan club or any other group or website that inferred anything politically incorrect, such as the display of yon rebel flag, or the preservation of orange clunker cars adorned with said flag, or the promotion of a tv show that refuses, after all these years, to fade away into memory, and take the rebel flag with it.

Yeehaa, my friends.

The people who bow down to the National American Communist Party ( It was started by a WHITE communist W.E.B. Dubois) show how weak they are. The word racist even means Race- genotypical description of your physique, and ist-belonging to or being a member of a certain group or party! See? Everybody's a RACE IST! Don't play their game! This is all B.S.! John Schneider once said that the Confederate flag didn't mean then what it does now....meaning when they first started the show. That's ridiculous! The flag is close to 150 yrs. old and it means NOW what it meant THEN!!

[LizzyJackson-Davenport]

I know this is not the point of this thread but a couple facts. W.E.B. Du bois was not a white guy he was mixed race as his mother was a free black and his father a descendant of a french american.

Second he had nothing to do with the Communist Party Of The United States as he was part of the NAACP which backed both the Republican and democrat parties at times depending on who supported blacks rights. In 1931 he even condemned the Communist party claiming that it unfairly attacked the NAACP.

[RogerDuke]

There's not a person in the world who would watch the entire series and be able to find evidence that the show has any racist overtones at all....including the flag.....unless they want to stretch the truth beyond recognition.....in which case it wouldn't be the truth.

Let's not beat each other up over this thing. The title of the thread is "The Dukes are Racist?" or put another way "Are the Dukes Racist?"

That question has been answered 1,000 times and each time the answer is no. If we answer another thousand times the answer will still be no. Let's recognize this trend and say this debate is settled and move onto more interesting questions like who's the most beautiful bachlorette in Hazzard, Daisy or Emma Tisdale?

[Hobie Hartkins]

Like a Confederate flag T shirt I saw, said, " If this flag offends you, then you need a history lesson!" It's sad that so many people THINK they know what it's all about and they THINK they know what they're talking about and it is completely wrong! I've even stopped arguing /discussing it with people, because today, you have people born and raised here in the South, who believe all the liberal left crap!! In the movies, the good guy always wins ( Just like in the Dukes!), but in reality, sometimes the bad people win too! And like they say, the winner writes the history! This is how we came to " Know" all these " Facts" ( notice the quotes) about the War Between the States, or the War for Southern Independance, NOT the " Civil" war! ( A civil war, is where you, as part of a country, try to overpower and overthrow the legitimate government of that country. We were trying to do just the opposite! We were trying to break away, NOT overthrow, so it was NOT a Civil war! )

* Note: Dubois WAS black...he wasn't white .....example: I'm part woman as well as man ( all men have the X as well as the Y chromosome!), but the DOMINANT part of my genetic makeup is male!! I am " ALL" man!...see? The black genes are dominant over the white 4/1 and they will always come out somewhere down the line!

[Spike]

Thought this fit here instead of starting a new discussion...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/missouri-jail-officer-wore-confederate-110000397.html

Some people really need to get a life instead of going through other people's social media posts to try and find any little thing to be offended about. 

[Hobie Hartkins]

The Feds do it on a reg. basis...your tax dollars at work! I've run in to them on here!

[RogerDuke]

The world has gone insane. We are getting to a point where it seems like everybody loves to hate.

[Hobie Hartkins]

27 minutes ago, RogerDuke said:

The world has gone insane. We are getting to a point where it seems like everybody loves to hate.

and the haters call love hate!