The identical twins and alter-ego personalities threads

[P.J. Gathergood]

What is everyone's feelings on the episodes, of which there were quite a few, where a cast member would either play an identical twin of a character, or the character would have an "alter ego" change of personality? Did you like them, or did you feel they were too silly an stretched the credibility of the series; and what was the best and worst of such episodes?

About a year ago I made a definitive list of all such episodes, but I though I'll let other members try to name the episodes before I give the list.

[HossC]

I'll kick off with 'Baa, Baa White Sheep' where Sorrell also plays Boss' honest twin brother, Abraham Lincoln Hogg. I'm not going to try and convince anyone that the idea of one actor playing twins with opposite personalities is original, but it was fun. Sorrell was a very talented character actor who loved playing Boss, but I'm sure he also enjoyed the chance to flip the characteristics. I thought it made a good one-off episode, with plenty of comedy/farcical moments, but I'm also glad they didn't over-stretch the idea by bringing Abraham Lincoln Hogg back for a second visit.

Just to prove that Dukes wasn't the only '80s show to do this, David Hasselhoff also played Garthe Knight in 'Knight Rider'.

[P.J. Gathergood]

I think "Baa, Baa White Sheep" is one of the best twin/alter ego episodes, s6's "Too Many Roscos" maybe being it's closest rival for best episode in this category. Boss was the character that had the most alter egos seen through the series (anyone care to try and list them all before I do?) I totally agree that it would have stretched the idea to have brought the character back.

(Also, on a side note bit of trivia, "Baa, Baa White Sheep" was actually the first episode to be filmed for the third season; and to me it always felt like that half the cast wasn't back from vacation yet! Bo is absent (one of the real down points of the story), as is Cletus (though maybe he wasn't officially added to the cast yet when this was filmed). Also note that, after the whole Ben-Jones-leaves-over-Cooter-growing-a-beard incident during the second season, notice that here Cooter has a fully beard, the thickest ever seen in the series. This would be a one-off; the character was clean shaven for the rest of the show's run).

The Garthe episodes of 'Knight Rider', "Goliath" and "Goliath Returns", are two of the best installments of that show's run - "Goliath" in particular is in my top three favourite episodes. David Hasselhoff announced on 'Returns that it would be the last time he played the character, due to the extra time for make-up and filming both "halves" of a scene. They also tried a similar concept in 'The A-Team's fourth season opener "Judgement Day", when George Peppard plays both a Mafia villain, and Hannibal (who disguises himself as the villain). For that series, the idea just didn't work, and "Judgement Day" is one of my least favourite episodes of that show's entire run.

[HossC]

They also tried a similar concept in 'The A-Team's fourth season opener "Judgement Day", when George Peppard plays both a Mafia villain, and Hannibal (who disguises himself as the villain). For that series, the idea just didn't work, and "Judgement Day" is one of my least favourite episodes of that show's entire run.

With 'The A-Team', George Peppard had to play some kind of alter ego nearly every week as Hannibal disguised himself to meet prospective clients. Having said that, this was normally a brief scene near the start of an episode, so the extra make-up was probably a one-off each time.

[Meadowmufn]

Awesome idea for a thread. My favorite is, of course, Too Many Roscos, followed closely by Baa, Baa White Sheep. I'm a sucker for a good twin/doppleganger episode.

[Hobie Hartkins]

I liked Baa Baa Black Sheep and I think it would've been ok if Sorrell had done it a time or two more! I've always said, the only REAL actors on the show, were Sorrel, Denver and Jimmy and between those three, I'd say it's a toss up between Sorrel and Jimmy!

[P.J. Gathergood]

Personally I think if they brought back Abraham Lincoln Hogg it would have watered-down a one-joke idea too much. If they had, I think they would have been wise not to do it too often (Booke was wonderful in the dual role, but I felt the whole concept only really stretched to one episode).

I've heard it commented over the years that season 5's "Big Daddy" would have been a better episode (allowing for Coy and Vance, of course) if Sorrell Booke had been aged with make-up to play the role of Boss's father, similar to him playing Abe Hogg in "Baa, Baa White Sheep". As it was, the actor had little real resemblance to Booke and - again even when allowing for Coy and Vance - ended up a rather flat and unmemorable episode.

What are people's views the number of alter-ego episodes done on the show? From the third season onwards, it was a frequently used plot device from an episode, usually with several such episodes appearing each season (Season 5 is the only following season not to have one). Personally I think it is a very fun concept to use once in a while, but I always felt that they over-used the idea and it is one of the things that started to strain the concept of the series.

With 'The A-Team', George Peppard had to play some kind of alter ego nearly every week as Hannibal disguised himself to meet prospective clients. Having said that, this was normally a brief scene near the start of an episode, so the extra make-up was probably a one-off each time.

This is true, although it was always "Hannibal playing someone else". For me in the 'Team it just didn't work with a character in dual roles, it didn't work within the context of the series. Dukes and A-Team are my two all-time favourite TV series, and whilst they have a lot of in common, as I boy I always used to pick out the different "rules" of what could and couldn't happen within each programme. Just thank goodness they didn't do a "Strange Visitor to Hazzard" A-Team style!

(Nerdy fact: A few years ago when I ran my A-Team site, I made a list of every Hannibal disguise, as well as Face disguise, ever used in the series. I really did waste most of my life!!)

Edited March 11, 2014 by P.J. Gathergood

[HossC]

I've heard it commented over the years that season 5's "Big Daddy" would have been a better episode (allowing for Coy and Vance, of course) if Sorrell Booke had been aged with make-up to play the role of Boss's father, similar to him playing Abe Hogg in "Baa, Baa White Sheep". As it was, the actor had little real resemblance to Booke and - again even when allowing for Coy and Vance - ended up a rather flat and unmemorable episode.

Getting Sorrell to play his own father would have been fun, and would probably have made more sense. The idea led me to try and remember other cases where actors played relatives. Obviously there's the Back to the Future movies where several actors play their own relatives. It's similar to the concept behind a Dukes episode we haven't mentioned yet: 'Go West, Young Dukes'. All the inhabitants of Sleepy City bore an uncanny resemblance to their modern-day counterparts.

It also got me thinking about 'M*A*S*H'. In one episode (I forget which), Radar (played by Gary Burghoff) gets sent a home movie which features Gary Burghoff playing Radar's mother.

Just to mix things up, Robert Alda (aka. C.J. Holmes from 'The Runaway') appears alongside his real-life son, Alan Alda, yet their characters are not related. Alan's half-brother Anthony also appears as an unrelated character.

I guess that opens up another can of worms if we include real relatives appearing in shows. 'One Armed Bandits' featured Ernie Lively and his stepson Jason. I won't count Jimmie Best's wife Dorothy appearing in 'The Rustlers' as they weren't married at the time. Were there any other real-life relatives in Dukes?

What are people's views the number of alter-ego episodes done on the show? From the third season onwards, it was a frequently used plot device from an episode, usually with several such episodes appearing each season (Season 5 is the only following season not to have one). Personally I think it is a very fun concept to use once in a while, but I always felt that they over-used the idea and it is one of the things that started to strain the concept of the series.

I think it can be easy to forget what it was like watching TV in the early '80s, especially for those members who weren't born! Most people didn't even have VCRs, let alone DVD boxsets, Dukes TV marathons and the internet. You got to see the show once when it first aired and then maybe sometime later as a re-run. Plenty of TV shows got away with recycling storylines because they were a year or two apart. I'm now older, and have seen every episode of Dukes several times, so the repetition does stand out sometimes, but I don't remember noticing it so much when I first saw them.

[P.J. Gathergood]

Don't forget 'Magnum, p.i.' - as well as playing British Jonathan Quayle Higgins, Texan John Hillerman also played Higgins' half-brothers: rodeo rider Elmo Ziller in the second season's "The Elmo Ziller Story", Irish priest Father Paddy McGuiness in season three's "Faith and Begorrah" (who also made a brief cameo after Higgins had been posing as him in the later "Echos of the Mind"), and Latino freedom fighter Don Luis Higgins in s6's "Who Is Don Luis Higgins?..., ...and Why Is He Doing These Terrible Things to Me?" (the weakest of the trio of episodes), as well as Higgins' father at the end of s6's "Déjà Vu".

In terms of relations playing unrelated characters on screen, Dwight Schultz (Murdock)'s wife Wendy Fauton played vet Dr. Kelly Stevens opposite Murdock in the fan favourite 'A-Team' s3 episode 'Bounty' (Dirk Benedict (Face)'s future wife Toni Hudson appeared in the s4 episode "Blood, Sweat and Cheers" though they weren't yet married). Dick Van Dyke played a twisted genius villain in "Malduke", part of the infamously terrible Canadian-produced season of 'Airwolf' (one of the only vaguely watchable episodes of that season IMO).

I think it can be easy to forget what it was like watching TV in the early '80s, especially for those members who weren't born! Most people didn't even have VCRs, let alone DVD boxsets, Dukes TV marathons and the internet. You got to see the show once when it first aired and then maybe sometime later as a re-run. Plenty of TV shows got away with recycling storylines because they were a year or two apart. I'm now older, and have seen every episode of Dukes several times, so the repetition does stand out sometimes, but I don't remember noticing it so much when I first saw them.

This is very true, though of course it might be said that 'The Dukes' recycled a number of plots even without alter-ego based episodes I was kinda thinking more along the lines of did so many episodes that slightly stretched what 'believablity' do the overall show good or now. As I say, I enjoyed some examples, but particularly in the later seasons, really did want some more solid, perilous plots mixed in.

[Hobie Hartkins]

If it had been a serious show, I would have been offended, because Jefferson Davis Hogg (The president of the Confederacy!), was a crook and Abraham Lincoln Hogg was a good guy, when in actuality, Lincoln was one of, if not THE worst president, we ever had! He wasn't crooked per se, but he was a law breaker, e.g. He didn't follow the Constitution, he pandered to certain groups of people, tried to be a dictator ( WAS one, actually!), etc. The writers of the show were obviously liberal and left! At least they kept it clean but I imagine that was mostly due to Sorrell making them! He told them he didn't want any real violence like people getting shot ( ONE guy got shot in the toe, on Mary Kaye's baby, but no blood and guts stuff!) and no drugs, etc. Even the episode where the Dukes got that pot, instead of a water heater, they didn't glorify it and Boss told them what he thought of dope or drugs!

[P.J. Gathergood]

If it had been a serious show, I would have been offended, because Jefferson Davis Hogg (The president of the Confederacy!), was a crook and Abraham Lincoln Hogg was a good guy, when in actuality, Lincoln was one of, if not THE worst president, we ever had! He wasn't crooked per se, but he was a law breaker, e.g. He didn't follow the Constitution, he pandered to certain groups of people, tried to be a dictator ( WAS one, actually!), etc. The writers of the show were obviously liberal and left! At least they kept it clean but I imagine that was mostly due to Sorrell making them! He told them he didn't want any real violence like people getting shot ( ONE guy got shot in the toe, on Mary Kaye's baby, but no blood and guts stuff!) and no drugs, etc. Even the episode where the Dukes got that pot, instead of a water heater, they didn't glorify it and Boss told them what he thought of dope or drugs!

This is true - word has it that Sorrell had it actually written into his contract that Boss would never become involved in drugs, and requested that one episode (which turned out to be s2's "Mason Dixon's Girls") specifically stating that "even he" would not touch drugs.

[P.J. Gathergood]

Well, here's the comprehensive list of alter-egos (same character with severe personality change), impostors, and ancestors.

Luke

-----

"Goodbye, General Lee" (s4) - Boss has Professor Crandall hypnotise Luke to convince him to get get rid of the General Lee

"Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Duke" (s7) - Luke develops a nasty alter ego after drinking some intoxicated pond water

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Hank Duke, Luke's ancestor

Bo

-----

"My Son, Bo Hogg" (s3) - when Bo suffers amnesia after a blow to the head, Boss convinces him that Bo his his son

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Joe Duke, Bo's ancestor

* Bo and Luke also had impostors who wore masks to look identical to then, in s4's "Double Dukes"

Daisy

-----

"Heiress Daisy Duke" (s6) - Boss has Prof. Crandall (from "Goodbye, General Lee") hypnotise Daisy to think she is wealthyVivian Stewart.

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Dixie Duke, Daisy's ancestor

Jesse

-----

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Jeremiah Duke, Jesse's ancestor

Cooter

-----

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Jeeter, Cooter's ancestor

Rosco

-----

"Too Many Roscos" (s6) - As Rosco and Rosco's impostor, Woody

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Sheriff Rufus Z. Coltrane, Rosco's ancestor

Boss

-----

"Baa, Baa White Sheep" (s3) - As Boss and Boss's clean-living brother, Abraham Lincoln Hogg

"The Late J.D. Hogg" (s3) - Boss turns "good" after being mistakenly told he is dying

"Nothin' But the Truth" (s4) - An accidental dose of truth serum sees Boss only able to tell the truth

"Go West, Young Dukes" (s7) - Thaddeus B. Hogg, Boss's ancestor

"No More Mr. Nice Guy" (s7) - A bump on the head once again tranforms Boss into a gentle, caring man

Enos and Cletus did not have any such appearances; Sonny Shroyer did not appear in "Go West, Young Dukes" (either as Enos or Enos's ancestor), and Rick Hurst had already left the series in early s5. (Although everyone pretended to be Enos at the climax of s6's "Enos's Last Chance").

Maybe Boss and Rosco should get honorary mentions for their impersonations of Lulu and Daisy in s7's "Targets: Daisy and Lulu".

[SonjaBudd]

I have a story at the moment currently titled "Twins" in it Jonathan Kent and Bo Duke are identical twins.

[HossC]

* Bo and Luke also had impostors who wore masks to look identical to then, in s4's "Double Dukes"

Here's Turk and Moody wearing Boss's masks and wigs to impersonate Bo and Luke when they rob the bank in 'Double Dukes'.

That episode also featured another double for one of the show's stars - the General Lee. The General got two doubles in 'Dukes Meet Cale Yarborough' .

[P.J. Gathergood]

That episode also featured another double for one of the show's stars - the General Lee. The General got two doubles in 'Dukes Meet Cale Yarborough' .

Very true, Hoss - I nearly mentioned those (but worried that the list was getting too long already). Then of course there's the second General accidentally seen in shot in the Georgia Hazzard Square in "One Armed Bandits", I wonder if that counts!

It's a fun-but-annoying blooper in "Double Dukes" regarding Luke's shirt. Unusually Luke/impostor wear a plain blue shirt in this episode (the only season where Luke regularly wore a plain blue shirt was during s2), but at other points of the episode wears his more standard s4 plaid shirt. However, on some shots (close-ups etc.) the shirt changes design back-and-forth from the longshots.