War on Terrorism

[Konrad Lee Duke]

I want to know what other people think about the war.

[dixieduke]

not to offend anyone but i do not agree with the war

[Konrad Lee Duke]

As well as voting, i'd like to understand why people agree/ disagree and so on just so i can understand it better myself.

[Meadowmufn]

Just a li'l warning here.. I don't like political stuff on the boards because inevitably it leads to heated arguments. We have enough of that just discussing the DOH movies. LOL.

If you guys can keep this discussion civil, it'll stay. If it starts getting heated or controversial, I'm going to close and/or delete the thread.

However, if there are enough folks that are really interested in talking politics, I could be persuaded to put up a private, password protected forum for y'all to chatter in. I just don't want heated discussions scarin' folks away from all the fun stuff!

[Konrad Lee Duke]

Fair enough. but the board does say talk about current events and issues so....i think this was a big one that people need to think about...no arguments intended i just wanted to find out other peoples opinions on it.

[Brian Coltrane]

I believe we entered the "war on terrorism" with flawed intelligence and an incomplete strategy. I have tremendous respect for all the brave men and women in the armed services, let me make that clear. But it's my opinion that our political leadership has fallen short under two different presidents.

Bush Sr. in Desert Storm, stopped US tanks while they were 50 miles away from Bagdad. We declared a cease-fire and Saddam claimed victory because "Iraq rebuffed the Americans", in his view. I've oft speculated if 911 could have been prevented, if Bush Sr. would not have called off the dogs of war as early as he did, back then. We could have had a Walmart and a Home Depot in Bagdad by now, if this job would have been done thorougly the first time.

All this aside, the scary thing is that Muslim extremists have a single purpose. Convert non-Muslims to Muslims, and kill any remaining infidels who refuse conversion. This means you.

Muslim extremists have a "manifest destiny" of sorts, or world vision, where all nations become Muslim. To them, it is impossible to have freedom of religion as there is no other religion that can be tolerated. All other beliefs are an affront to God and they see it as thier duty to set the world straight or destroy it.

This is the hardest thing for us, as Americans, to wrap our mind around. We can't just subdue a pocket of extremists and say it's over. This is a holy war, to our enemies, and there is no regard for life, no pity for the innocent. They are fighting for control of the souls of humanity, and for their glory in the afterlife. This is how they see their service to God. Every living, breathing infidel who is enjoying comfort and freedom is an abomination to them. The United States is their poster-child example of a hive of infidels. To weaken us, bring us down, and force us to accept their religion or die, is their purpose.

Our only hope is in spreading capitalism rapidly, and getting Walmart Super-centers open in the Bagdad suburbs.

[Meadowmufn]

I believe we entered the "war on terrorism" with flawed intelligence and an incomplete strategy.

The "war on terrorism" didn't start after 9/11. Though it came to the forefront then, this is technically a decades old, if not millenia old, battle. I don't think we "entered" the war on terrorism. I think we just woke up to the fact that they were already "warring" with us and we decided not to just sit back and take it anymore.

I can't think of a single war we've fought that DIDN'T have flawed intelligence and incomplete strategies. LOL. That's probably why the old adage "war is hell" still rings true today despite our high tech weapons and modern intelligence gathering techniques.

The hell of it all is, we have to succeed EVERY time, while the terrorists only have to succeed once in order to achieve a victory... which is killing infidels.

I completely agree with Brian (for once) in the thought that our best hope is by spreading Democracy and capitalism through the wonder that is Wal-mart to the four corners of the earth. Maybe then everyday low prices and the opportunity to buy tires and tube socks in the same building will soften the hearts of the extremists and they'll spend more time shopping and less time killing. Walmart, we salute you!

(The author of this post denies ever setting foot inside a Walmart. And Brian, if you tell anybody I did, I'll kick your ass.)

[Val Strate]

You know, when this whole thing started it gave me a queasy feeling in my gut and today it still gives me a queasy feeling every time I think about it.

I personally feel we shouldn't be there. The whole issue of this war boils down to two things. Number one is oil. We wouldn't be there in the first place if we weren't so dependant on those gooey hydrogen carbon chains for fueling our cars. There were ways to solve the energy crisis along time ago and those ways have been ignored for at least 20 years now if not more. Desert Storm would have never taken place if it wasn't for OIL! We wouldn't have given two cents about that little tiny county called Kuwait if it wasn't for OIL!

On top of that, to add more fuel to the fire, religious extremist in the Middle East have been fighting for years in Israel and Palestine. Muslims have been fighting against Christians for the Holy land for centuries in that part of the world. The fact of the matter is, that now, the Muslims now have a new target to aim there guns at and accomplish their goals of spreading their religion and going to their reward.

Truthfully, now I'm not trying to get off topic here but if anyone reads the book of Revelations in the Christian Bible, the last battle of the earth is suppose to be fought in the Middle East near the Holy Land. There are already warning signs from the environment and the on set of these stronger forms of disease that are popping up look like the possibilities of the plaques that the Bible talks about. Now I'm not trying to be preachy here, I'm just being observant as a scholar here in the similarities to the coincidences. This is why I feel queasy about this war. I don't feel we should be there because I feel like it's the wrong thing to do and we may under estimate more than we realize and have to pay heavy, heavy consequences for our actions. Prospects of nuclear war with Iran are scary enough to say, 'hey, let's get the heck out of here'. I don't care if we are the most powerful nation in the world. The thought of having a five year old with a .22 pistol in his hands pointed at you is scary, even if you are an adult and older and smarter and you know how to use the gun better than the five year old. The fact of the matter is, is that the five year old has a gun and it's pointed at you.

That's my point about Iran and other developing countries that are getting nuclear capabilities. You tick these kids off enough, they are going to shoot their guns and guess what, and we’re dead, end of story.

Personally, my solution to this ordeal is simple. We pull the heck out of the Middle East in the military sense but tell them that we are here for them economically and diplomatically. We focus our attention on more diplomatic ways to make peaceful pacts with these counties and all the while we talk about peace with them, back home we invest our energy and money on marketing alternative energy and eco-friendly tactics to business to our own people to lessen our dependence on OIL!

[Meadowmufn]

We focus our attention on more diplomatic ways to make peaceful pacts with these counties

It's hard to talk peace with people who would much rather see you dead. As Brian said, they have no regard for human life and no pity for the innocent. To think we can just talk them out of thousands of years of the same mindset is a tad naive. It doesn't matter how much WE want peace. THEY have got to want peace too, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. Perhaps if more moderate Muslims stood up and said this is wrong, it might happen. But until then, we need to protect and defend ourselves.

Oil is not the number one reason for this war. In fact, I don't think it has very much to do with oil at all. No, this war is about islamic terrorists and extremists, and their quest for global domination and Islamic supremacy. They've been killing people to achieve their aims long before the automobile was invented and there was even a need for oil. Oil wasn't the reason the Twin Towers came down or the Pentagon was hit. Oil wasn't the reason they bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, bombed the U.S.S. Cole in 2000, bombed the London Underground in 2005, bombed the trains in Madrid in 2004, bombed the U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, bombed the Khobar Towers in 1996, bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut in 1983, took 66 American diplomats hostage in the U.S. Embassy in Iran in 1979, not to mention numerous airplane hijackings, suicide bombings, and the Munich Olympic massacre in 1972. I could go on, but I think I made my point....

[Meadowmufn]

Here's a good analogy in Dukes terms...

If you're sittin' in the Boar's Nest some Friday evenin' and an angry drunk comes up to you and is hell bent on beating the snot out of ya for some reason you can't fathom, you can try to talk sense to him while he's pummeling you, or you can put yer dukes up and defend yourself. LOL.

[i1976]

Reading your posts, I realize the different perspective of 9/11 between America and Europe.

I envy your "pride" to be american.

I agree with a wonderful italian journalist (recently died), Oriana Fallaci.

She talked 'bout war and terrorism, in a so passionate and "strong" way......

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003191

The words of this article are very strong (as Oriana's words usually were) .

If this article is too strong, well, I'll remove it.

[Julieduke]

Here's a good analogy in Dukes terms...

If you're sittin' in the Boar's Nest some Friday evenin' and an angry drunk comes up to you and is hell bent on beating the snot out of ya for some reason you can't fathom, you can try to talk sense to him while he's pummeling you, or you can put yer dukes up and defend yourself. LOL.

I like your analogy it makes alot of sense to me.

[Brian Coltrane]

Reading your posts, I realize the different perspective of 9/11 between America and Europe.

I envy your "pride" to be american.

I agree with a wonderful italian journalist (recently died), Oriana Fallaci.

She talked 'bout war and terrorism, in a so passionate and "strong" way......

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003191

The words of this article are very strong (as Oriana's words usually were) .

If this article is too strong, well, I'll remove it.

Thanks for sharing that article. I agree with it on a couple of points; democracy can't just be handed to a culture that isn't ready for it - and also, yes Saddam should have been taken care of by Bush Sr in Desert Storm, an opinion I've already declared.

Yet I concur with Mufn that there is a long history of terrorist attacks against U.S. interests. 9/11 was the most damaging and it changed our nation forever. It changed the world.

Nobody likes that change.

In some crimes, the victim is oft blamed for somehow deserving their fate. For example, people may blame women who were raped, by speculating they attracted the crime by dressing inappropriately or baiting the man who raped them.

A man gets shot in an altercation in a bad neighborhood in a big city. Well, what was he doing outside at 1 a.m, right? Must have been a drug deal, eh?

I think this is what's happening to America today. We've went from having the world's sympathy after 9/11, to having the world's animosity for being "an aggressor."

Do we belong in Iraq?

Did we belong in Korea?

Did we belong in Vietnam?

Is it all about oil? Or do we, too, have a broader manifest destiny, and world vision of our own? Such as world democracy and free trade?

America is the last damn hope for a world that would otherwise, in it's polite pacifism and graceful turn of the other cheek, fall under tyranny.

After World War I, America and many European nations were weary of conflict and hoped that Hitler would somehow limit his damage to Germany and leave the rest of the world alone. After Pearl Harbor, the United States entered the conflict with everything it had. We were woken up from our pacifist stupor in the rudest way possible, and we responded with a roar. It was American blood, American technology, that gave the Allied nations a chance to defeat fascism. By wanting "peace", by ignoring the atrocities happening in Germany, by playing "friend" to a madman, some countries were rewarded by being among Germany's first victims.

Today, are we such poor students of history, to forget such a lesson?

What happens to you, O Pacifist Nations, should America fall ? Will Muslim extremists leave you alone? Hell no. If you have democracy, if you have another religion, you too will be targeted. We are simply the chess piece they need to remove first, before wiping out the rest of you. They know it....and we know it.

Did we deserve our fate, bold country that we are?

Will you deserve yours? Will silence and complacency buy your lives and preserve your culture?

Are you willing to leave it to chance?

Thus the difference.

[Emy-Rae Duke]

i dont agree with the war in the Arab countries, no offense but the more soldiers you all sened will be the more soldiers that'll die. in those countries the arent afraid of dying and you dont go after people that aren't afraid to die. do you guys understand?

[General Grant]

Hey Y'all!

Everyone had very good opinions, and it is refreshing to see a group of people who can talk about politics and such and be very friendly while doing so. Thank you everyone for that! Upon seeing the title of the thread, I was a little leary of opening it because usually people get a little hostile over their beliefs. Thank you everyone, you have proved (yet again) how great of a site this is. I truly appreciate that everyone was open to the opinions of everyone else and were generally accepting of new Ideas. Or at least didn't cut people down because of their thoughts and beliefs. Again... thank you!!

I'm not going to comment on this, though. Some of you brought up some great thoughts, and I think it would be better if I just take in what everyone has to say. Some of you did sway my thoughts a little... any of you ever think of becoming a lawyer?!

Anyway, I 'm just writing to say thank-you for keeping it (as meadowmufn said in the earlier posts) civil! You all have great thoughts on the topic.

But I do think we all owe the soldiers, both past and present, a huge Thank You!

Okay, sorry for the stray off of the topic. Please, continue on.

General Grant